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Skipping 1st Heat

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Post  Hoffmanlongdogs Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:08 pm

I have heard you should skip the first heat. Is this a recommended word of advice?

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Post  littletinydachz Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:19 pm

Depends on the dog......
I look at the whole picture..
Is the dog mature?(physically and mentally)
Is the dog healthy?
What age is the dog?(the age for first heat can vary greatly)
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Post  Guest Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:38 pm

I do the same and if the dog is mature and healthy and will be over 1 year of age then i breed.

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Post  Proud Lake Dachshunds Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:24 am

I wouldn't breed on a first heat, regardless of the age of the bitch on her first heat, personally. On the other hand, if the bitch will be over a year old when she whelps, and is pretty mature, it's not the end of the world. I just personally prefer the bitch to be older, more physically and mentally matured-I like them to be around 2 before bred, but I realize I'm in the minority there.

I also skip a lot of heats and most people hate that too. Laughing I bred my bitch for the first time at over 2, and her second litter will be when she's almost 4. I'm skipping two heats in between her litters, and she'll probably be retired after the 2nd litter.

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Post  Guest Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:27 pm

Dr Hutchinson suggests a healthy uterus in a dog is a pregnant one. The pregnancy helps to keep the uterus from becoming spongy and infected from not being bred. I would not recommend skipping her past her first season due to this. I would also recommend if your going to skip so many seasons in a dog then you should go ahead and spay for the safety of the female involved. You can look up Dr Hutchinson and breeding seminars for dogs and find his speech and what he talks about him being a reproduction specialist with dogs and all.

Proud lakes I am not trying to contradict you just pointing out what a professional reproduction vet recommends. Which all in all is really what we should go by is the professionals who have years of study under their belts. I also would like to point out that when i breed back to back i also go by weather the mother has sprung into shape again from her last litter physically.


Reproduction Seminar Link

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Post  Proud Lake Dachshunds Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:51 pm

You're not offending me by disagreeing-like I said, I know I'm in the minority on this issue, and I'm okay with that. I tend to disagree a bit with the current logic on this (in wolf packs, only the alpha bitch breeds, and the beta/omega bitches have unbred seasons all the time, so nature allows for that too), but that's what makes the world go 'round. I completely understand where you guys are coming from, I just choose not to practice the back-to-back system myself for my own reasons. We've been round and round on that on that "other" site about that (not you and I specifically, but you know what I mean), so I want to make it clear this time-it's my own choice and it's not a judgement of the practice.

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Post  littletinydachz Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:05 pm

As an owner/breeder....It all comes down with how comfortable YOU(you meaning, everyone..lol) are with it..individual case by case basis.. Very Happy
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Post  D&A Mini Doxies Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:06 pm

I've read over that on the other site as well, and agree with the back to back thing. I need some advice though. We bred Hollie 3 times back to back-1st and 2nd litter she had 8 (lost 2 pups), 3rd litter she had 11 (lost 2 pups).....since she has HUGE litters we were going to skip her next litter then breed her a 4th and final time. We felt so bad for her with this current litter when she had 11, but she whelped and nursed the pups like a pro (didn't even have to help bottle feed) so we were going to let her have a break. However, I've been thinking about this back to back thing and would it be harder on her skipping since she drops a lot more eggs? I'm pretty sure Darrens going to skip her no matter what I was just curious.

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Post  littletinydachz Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:31 pm

Alex,Just by her releasing more eggs...that probably means that she has more hormone action going on than say ...a dog that only releases 3 eggs....I would think it would be much harder on her internal reproductive system since she does have lots of pup(and lots of hormones)..IMO,of course..lol..

Oh and I also wanted to add...some dogs LOVE to be moms,some HATE it..I would retire a dog right away if she hated being a mom!(and yes you can tell) Shocked
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Post  D&A Mini Doxies Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:45 pm

Hmm thats what I was thinking. I must also add that Hollie was bred on her first heat at 10 months Shocked It was back before we did much research on anything, and then I found the doxiespot and other breeders to learn from. She did great though Very Happy , but I would never recommend breeding that early with what we know now.

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Post  AlaskanLowrider Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:21 pm

I have bred on the first heat on two 9 month old girls....1 was planned and the other was a sneak attack - both girls were fine and really good momma's but I think they were robbed of reaching their full potential. Whereas, the girls that were older (2 and 3.5yrs) I knew were at their full potential and it wasn't such a guessing game.

Some breeders won't have a litter until their girls have CERF and OFA done at 2 yrs. preferring to spend that time for additional testing, training, shows etc. which I am leaning more towards in doing myself....If all goes as planned, Luna will be 23 months and on her 4th heat (5 month cycler) - I am still debating whether to breed Phoebe (if like her momma, will be a 6 month cycler) in April (21 months) on her 3rd heat or in October (27 months) on her 4th heat.....she could have a litter her next heat but I need more time for the best match I can find.

Breeding back to back I have mixed feelings on ...on one hand studies show its healthier for the girls internally and they prefer to mate during every season but on the other hand, from what I have experienced, it seems to take a lot of life out of them externally, behaviorally and if eclampsia does happen, it will be sooner than later. I think if girls are given more time, you know more of what they are producing with a particular stud to decide to use him again or move on yet if you have a couple generations of a particular line, you know more of what is going to be produced out of them.

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Post  Proud Lake Dachshunds Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:50 pm

That's pretty much exactly where I am. Millie's girls will be a year and a half old when I repeat that breeding, so I'll have seen them pretty much grow into adults by then. Cricket's ten months now and hasn't had a season yet, and as far as I'm concerned, she can wait for as long as she wants. I have no plans to breed her next year. I want to show her and Junie on a heavier schedule next year, and if she's close, I'll want to finish her before I breed her considering what happened to her mother's coat after whelping. So, even the following year would be iffy, which might make her about three before I breed her.

Plus, I still have all her health testing to do, and I like to wait on most of that until they're around two. And honestly, as much background research I do on potential studs, it might take me that long to find one that suits. Rolling Eyes I already have a long list of what I'm looking for and it's going to be a chore to find Mr. Right.

Junie's never going to be bred, so she'll remain intact until she's finished one way or the other (either finished champion or just FINISHED in the ring, lol) and then she'll just be spayed and my mom's favorite couch potato.

I might feel differently about it if Millie had health problems or something like that, but she was such a terrific mother for having waited to maturity, and she's never had any difficulties skipping heats. I'll spay her when she's through with her maternal duties since she's pretty much been a bomb in the ring, (though she might get a few more random appearances here and there) and she'll probably be my favorite couch potato. Smile

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