HOw does genetics play a part in litter size?

I remember learning this tid-bit of information while attending animal reproduction classes a few year back...

Where male pigs teats are counted and bred to contribute to litter sizes in their female offspring,I wonder how much this would apply in Dachshunds,if at all,but I thought it was worth researching amongst us to find out how/if the sire contributes to the daughter's litter size when she's bred?

http://www.reproduction-online.org/cgi/ ... 5/1/97.pdf

Dogs have different numbers of teats too!

Thanks Chris and I want to sit back for a bit to see what kind of comments we get here......Then if it's ok with everyone here...I would love to put in my 2 cents worth!!

Ok by me

The more opinions the merrier..

I'm genuinely frustrated with the way the thread "over there" is going. I'm pretty sure I'd be banned if I said what I really thought.

Well I do think this topic is very interesting. Our Hollie was out of a litter of 4...her dad was out of a litter of 5 or 6 I believe. Hollie's two past litters consisted of 8 pups sired by our Reuben who I am unsure of the litter size he came from. Both of Hollie's sisters also had larger litters of 5 considering they have a much more petite build than Hollie who has more bone to her. Me and Darren did have a conversation awhile ago about how strange it was that all the females out of the litter had a large litter size considering their mom only had 4 we just never thought anything of it and thought it was just a strange coincidence....which it might just be, but I would be very interested in doing more research on what males contribute....or maybe neither of the parents contribute to litter size, and it is just random depending on the build, health, fertility of the female. This topic is very interesting to me
I have read the whole thread over on the spot, and I too am a little disgusted with how the conversation went....it was kind of lead off topic by a "profit-based" sense to litter size versus the genetics behind it. In my opinion having dealt with our female consistenly having large litters I would much rather have a litter of 4 versus 8 LOL. I get so nervous with her for each delivery because with added pups there is also added room for more things to go wrong. Also, when they get to the age where they start being able to walk its hell from there LOL. Everything gets so messy because there is soo many of them they are constantly dirty because the added mess, and the added playfulness of the pups. Unless your babysitting them 24/7 it is impossible to keep everyone clean.

Yeah, after having the four girls, I honestly cannot imagine having more puppies than that at once. Partly because I kept three of them until 14 weeks, it was a little chaotic.

I'm about ready to blow though-I can tell I'm getting crabby. It's getting harder and harder to keep my mouth shut. Don't be surprised if I manage to get myself banned.

ok this is a quote from a friend on this subject and this is also on the same lines that I have heard from a few others that I speak to!!

"quote"Litter size is a function of the mother's genetics and the environment. The number of eggs she releases on any given heat can be, in a sense, determined genetically (the same as it is in human females who usually release only one egg). The diet, stress level, and things such as that around and before the time of ovulation can also play big roles.
The only way a male has an effect is if he doesn't have enough viable sperm to fertilize any or all the eggs present.
........the younger the girl, the fewer eggs; the older the girl, the fewer eggs; the smaller the girl, the fewer eggs; and vice versa. "quote"

These are all things that I have heard time and time again with many people. I consulted my "friend", to make sure that I was correct in my ways of thinking......well cause some of you know about my issue and mind....LOL!!!!

I have had some personal experience with some of this and plan on doing more research with my own dogs & friends dogs on this.
I bred my Aussie female to the same male 3 times....each time gave me a different amount of pups.....1st litter~8 pups....2nd litter~7 pups and lost 1.......3rd litter~6 pups. Her mom never had more than 6 pups. She was out of a litter of 6 pups. We are now breeding a male out of one of those litters to several females and keeping back a female...so we will see how that goes.....LOL....far cry from doxies...hehe!!
Fancy was bred to Nugget and had 5 pups lost 2. Her daughter Fancy II had 8 pups lost 1 bred to Nugget. 2 other females were bred to Nugget......I have to ask Gina a few things on the size of all the litters but she was totally shocked over how big this litter was. We are also concerned over pups stats on who will turn out, if any now and worried about growth rates on the pups. To many things from larger litters with many breeders has turned out more pet pups than quality pups. And I personally feel........that there just are too many issues or scenerios at work here to really get any true answers....but....by all means....let's share and hash out all our thoughts on this......maybe eventually someone will come up with a pattern or source with answers to the components to litter sizes with genetics towards the males having the effects on them or not......to many things point to them not...unless sperm count is taking into consideration and age of male....but then again.....I could keep asking....what if's.....LOL!!!
Ok I have to stop cause now I am totally confusing myself and it is getting too late for me to think properly...if that is even possible....LMBO!!! Sorry....gotta use humor with serious subjects.......I just hate to stress......LMBO!!!

Also back to my Aussie........the sire to my litters.....has sired many other ones with different females and was never consitent on number of pups per litter.
Nugget also has not been consistent on number of pups per litter......I did keep a female back from Fancy's litter 1 of the 3 that lived. Need to see how many pups was in Nuggets litter when he was born!!

I don't have a whole lot of experience, so I am just going to sit back and take notes from here as well as my litters. I do know Lucy came from a litter of 5 and she only had 3 babies. This was the male's first litter and he was from a litter of 4 (and will be the only, as we lost him when he dug through the fence to another run ) I think a lot of it was timing and the fact that he was inexperienced (first tie was on day 11 with assistance, lol) Ireland had 4 babies in her litter, and was from a litter of 5 I think (correct me if I'm wrong Karen) but I have no idea how many were in the sire's litter. I personally don't see the point of buying a female with one of the major selling points being what size litter she came from. If I had to choose from a stunning girl from a litter of 3 vs an ok girl from a litter of 7, ummm puppy A for me!

I had a litter of 6 last summer, and I have to say Ireland's litter has been much more fun. More 1 on 1 time with the pups and it is usually easier to make sure everyone is gaining enough. With the litter of 6, momma looked horrible in my opinion after whelping and I didn't want anyone to see her for fear they would think I wasn't feeding her! Ireland never looked bad and is pretty close to being back to her pre pregnancy look, no saggy boobies or anything, lol. Lucy also looks awesome and she just whelped yesterday. If I were to take her out for a walk tomorrow, you probably couldn't even tell, just at a glance, and that's the way I prefer it.

Ireland's babies start leaving soon, but Jazzy will whelp within the next week and I couldn't imagine if both of them had had 6-8 babies!! I think Jazzy will have 3 or 4 and that will be perfect for me

I had a litter of 6 last summer, and I have to say Ireland's litter has been much more fun. More 1 on 1 time with the pups and it is usually easier to make sure everyone is gaining enough. With the litter of 6, momma looked horrible in my opinion after whelping and I didn't want anyone to see her for fear they would think I wasn't feeding her! Ireland never looked bad and is pretty close to being back to her pre pregnancy look, no saggy boobies or anything, lol. Lucy also looks awesome and she just whelped yesterday. If I were to take her out for a walk tomorrow, you probably couldn't even tell, just at a glance, and that's the way I prefer it.

Ireland's babies start leaving soon, but Jazzy will whelp within the next week and I couldn't imagine if both of them had had 6-8 babies!! I think Jazzy will have 3 or 4 and that will be perfect for me

Ugh I agree Angie. When Hollie had her first litter of there was nothing left of that girl after delivery. We just left food out for her constantly after that. She looked fine after her second litter of 8 although one was born dead, and another one had died the next night. She never has had any problems with not producing enough milk. I would much rather have a litters of 4-5 versus 8 LOL....waaay to much stress for me when there is that many LOL.

This is something I will keep track of since I am at the very beginning of building my breeding program. Genetics intrigue me. Coming from pomeranians I am used to small litter of 2-4 so I can't even imagine what 6-8 is like. Bet they are a pain to keep clean at 8 weeks. haha.

Dash came from a litter of 5 and Sprinkles came from a litter of 3 I think.